## More chemical insanity from neuroscience

The current issue of PNAS contains a paper (vol. 111 pp. 8961 – 8966, 17 June ’14) which uncritically quotes some work done back in the 80’s and flatly states that synaptic vesicles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_vesicle have a pH of 5.2 – 5.7. Such a value is meaningless. Here’s why.

A pH of 5 means that there are 10^-5 Moles of H+ per liter or 6 x 10^18 actual ions/liter.

Synaptic vesicles have an ‘average diameter’ of 40 nanoMeters (400 Angstroms to the chemist). Most of them are nearly spherical. So each has a volume of

4/3 * pi * (20 * 10^-9)^3 = 33,510 * 10^-27 = 3.4 * 10^-23 liters. 20 rather than 40 because volume involves the radius.

So each vesicle contains 6 * 10^18 * 3.4 * 10^-23 = 20 * 10^-5 = .0002 ions.

This is similar to the chemical blunders on concentration in the nano domain committed by a Nobelist. For details please see — https://luysii.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/is-concentration-meaningful-in-a-nanodomain-a-nobel-is-no-guarantee-against-chemical-idiocy/

Didn’t these guys ever take Freshman Chemistry?

Didn’t I ever take it ? John wrote the following this AM

Please check the units in your volume calculation. With r = 10^-9 m, then V is in m^3, and m^3 is not equal to L. There’s 1000 L in a m^3.
Happy Anniversary by the way.

To which I responded

Ouch ! You’re correct of course. However even with the correction, the results come out to .2 free protons (or H30+) per vesicle, a result that still makes no chemical sense. There are many more protons in the vesicle, but they are buffered by the proteins and the transmitters contained within.

• John  On June 24, 2014 at 7:59 am

Please check the units in your volume calculation. With r = 10^-9 m, then V is in m^3, and m^3 is not equal to L. There’s 1000 L in a m^3.

Happy Anniversary by the way.

• luysii  On June 24, 2014 at 8:05 am

Ouch ! You’re correct of course. However even with the correction, the results come out to .2 free protons (or H30+) per vesicle, a result that still makes no chemical sense. There are many more protons in the vesicle, but they are buffered by the proteins and the transmitters containing.

• tangent  On July 10, 2014 at 4:55 am

Reading this I’d have assumed they were talking about the hydronium ion concentration of the vesicle contents in bulk, i.e. if you pooled a large sample of them. Or equivalently as being about the average. Is there a problem with that? Or were the authors explicitly talking about the range of pH as measured from individual vesicles?